Long entry is looooooong

[fencer_x]

I've got some stuff I've been wanting to say for a while, so...I've written it out. In a really REALLY long post. Fandom's really been getting me down lately.

I said TxN fandom in the cut text, but this applies to the Eiji/Daiki fandom to some extent, too (HAHA it's funny cause I implied that it had a fandom), but I'm mostly going to be talking about TxN, so just a heads up.

Lately I've felt...like fandom is dying--which is absurd, tutixnagayan has nearly 800 members and is still growing, we had a TON of entries for fic-for-a-pic which may have drawn out new authors, and our fandom will never die or end (well, it will literally DIE someday XD and I expect most people would leave if one or the other got married) because each new day brings new possibilities and new opportunities to get excited. TxN fandom has been around for something like 5 years now, and is still going reasonably strong.

But I look at this fandom, my main fandom, the fandom that brought me to Japan, if I were to be completely honest, and I'm disappointed. 90% of the posts are by the same few people, new members feel shy or scared to post (WHY?! I seriously do not understand why an open, fun community like tutixnagayan would be too intimidating to at least introduce yourself to!) and resort to treating the "BNFs" like gods almost (which frankly? Creeps me the hell out. Stop it), and nothing FUN ever happens anymore.

I remember back in our heyday when everyone used to post meta or fics or fanart or crack conversations they'd had on IM, people posted screencaps and translations and introduced themselves left and right, everyone wanted to know how people got into fandom, what their favorite moment was between the two, etc. It used to be a FUN place to be, and now it's just...died. If you're on my friends list reading this, and are a lurking member of tutixnagayan, I encourage you to do SOMETHING to get more involved in fandom if you feel like this is one of your major ones.

Because I seriously cannot understand people who do not want to get involved in fandom somehow if they feel it is a big enough deal to me. I have PLENTY of fandoms (some with ships I really like) that I like, but don't really fangirl actively. Currently, I don't write or draw or do anything to contribute to any other fandoms outside of *pnish*/Myu stuff, but I still like them, and I suspect a lot of people are that way for TxN. But for those of you who do consider this fandom important to you, I don't know how you could possibly NOT want to get more involved. I have to hold myself back somedays from writing meta or posting something because it will be my 5, 6, 7, 8th post in a row on a community just because no one else wants to get involved.

Get inspired by the guys: RP, write fanfic, draw fanart, make a video, take screencaps and write funny captions, anything! Or write meta, ask questions ("When did Nagayan and Tuti really start hanging out together outside of TeniMyu?") and generate discussion, or just tell us why you love the guys and what you feel about their relationship.

WHICH BRINGS ME TO ANOTHER POINT.

Lately...I've been observing a ton of different sides to the way people feel about this fandom. And I don't know that I like any of them (I don't disrespect them, and I understand them, but I just don't like them). If you feel like I'm referring to you, it's only possibly because something you said reminded me of something I've been feeling for a while--because I feel like this post has been a long time coming, and the entire purpose is to give me a place to vent (my own LJ, yay!) and try and make some sense of it all by writing it out.

1) I just...don't get people who have crack OTPs. ESPECIALLY crack RPS OTPs. You do understand what an OTP is? "One true pairing." A pairing you support so much, are so into, are so thrilled to see together in roughly any context, that it is almost painful to see them in ANY other pairing without just cause (and even then, you won't be too happy). That, to me, says crack OTPs by definition are illogical. I'm not saying you can't have them--I'm saying when I see people espousing X/Y as their crack OTP, a little bit inside of me shakes its head in confusion. I have relatively few OTPSs (and I challenge you to name them if you think you know me ^_~), mostly because I have relatively few fandoms I'm seriously involved in or seriously interested in really.

The crack RPS OTP, though, is a different breed entirely. RPS to me is a very, very delicate beast to tame. Say RPS to nearly any fandomer familiar with the term, and I can almost guarantee they will either look at you like you're a delusional freak, or raise an eyebrow and back away very slowly. It squicks a lot of people--the idea of seeing two celebrities (...or your best friends, as I've known some people to do o_O whaaaat) and mistaking their reasonable closeness with, "OMG THEY MUST BE FUCKING HAHAHAAAA" is...well, weird.

I get around it because to me, it isn't slash. I do not seriously RPS anyone outside of Tuti/Nagayan and Eiji/Daiki. Period. There are a few pairings I look at and think, "Well I think they could be cute together if anything ever happened," or, "Something seemed like it was happening before, but...not so much now. Don't have any interest," and that's it.

But for these two pairings it is a completely different matter: it's not RPS. Not to me. It's just looking at these men who are very, very close over a long period of time, noticing their quirks and habits that you're only privy to because they're not super famous, and realizing that there's a pattern to this, a familiar one, that says they care about each other--or are infatuated, or have big heaping mancrushes--and that, to me, is all it is. My view of where I stand in this fandom is based entirely on: I am simply observing a real life relationship between two guys. Who happen to be smalltime actors in a city with a population of nearly 13,000,000 people (and come on, they're theatre guys--when you think about it, it's not like it'd be unprecedented).

I'm not slashing. I don't look for magazine articles and "squee" when I see someone's hand on someone else's shoulder. I don't pee my pants because X said, "Y's such a great actor." Being here in this country, in this city, being able to see these men interact in real life on and away from the stage, it's a completely different experience (especially the "away from the stage" thing). I simply stumbled across these men who happen to be involved with one another in some form or another, and after years of observing, I gotta say it's only getting harder for me to deny it. Or understand how others can't see it.

2) Others I've seen have just...fallen out of love with fandom. Whether you used to be really, heavily involved, or you were a big presence in fandom in one respect or another, I've seen so many of my friends in these fandoms just completely disappear or move on. I'm biased, I know: I'm too close to understand how anyone could get OUT of this fandom, when I am daily sucked in even further.

But do you have any idea how lonely it is being a fandom of one? Or ten? (well, many of you understand that feeling, I'm sure :P) It sucks. And even more so, it sucks putting in your all into a fandom when nothing ever comes back from it, no one ever responds to your contributions, or cares, or the response you get is a negative one. Seeing people falling out of love with a fandom I am still putting my entire self into 120% is possibly one of the most depressing things I've ever experienced (stfu, I've had a good life...).

I know real life comes first, I know sometimes school or a job hunt gets the better of us, and before we know it it's been 3 months since we last posted. For others, the spark that intrigued us about a fandom dies: some people only saw and cared about Tuti/Nagayan as the Golden Pair (which is a horrible shame, IMHO--those are the RPSers who squick me; the ones who can only see the actors for their characters), some people don't have the time or energy to follow them outside of their big productions like BuriMyu, so with that over they're pretty much done.

For me, fandom's my life right now. I came to Japan to see these guys perform in person, to be able to interact with them to some extent, to get more involved in this theatre scene because I really, honestly enjoy it. I love all these guys completely apart from any shipping tendencies I may have. I would love *pnish* just as much even if I wasn't completely bowled over by Eiji's and Daiki's incessant flirting or wish to kidnap Tuti and make him my English student (Wasshi, I love you too!). I cannot think of anywhere else I'd rather be right now than gearing up to go to another show or event or drop by Gain or go to a street live or sing myu songs at karaoke with my friends. Fandom and real life have fused perfectly for me right now, and I'm really happy with the way my life's going.

Yet all around me I see people get bored with fandom, get squicked by fandom after seeing the guys in person (which baffles me--unless you've been looking in the wrong places this entire time, this particular fandom has only gotten more and more obvious as the days go on. HappyPani, hello?), or just get disconnected for one reason or another and never bother coming back. And I miss each and every one of you who do that, but feel tired of trying to get people re-interested in this fandom.

I miss the days from only a couple of years ago when we'd spend hours in Lube Chat (with the old standbys too, not the "New Lube Chat"--even though that's of course fun ^_~) talking about anything and everything fandom related, having the most awesome time while everyone was at work or home or putting off going to bed or just waking up in the morning.

I've given this fandom my all for years now, translating and seeking out information and reports, writing long meta posts and reports that no one really seems to care about save the same few people every time. pnish is all but dead; the only people who post there now are people wanting to know where to download stuff or people wanting to sell stuff. morixdaiki is never going to take off, because if people haven't gotten into it now with everything I and others have done for this ship, they aren't going to (which pisses me off--sometimes I feel like TxN is Silver Pair and Eiji/Daiki is Golden Pair; I love both, but all the love and attention the former gets while the latter gets shafted sometimes makes me hate it almost).

Yet still I sit here thinking, "Well I could do X or Y and THAT would get people interested!" Usually something along the lines of translating/subbing shows. Logic tells me that more people would be into *pnish* if they knew what they were saying--people are into TeniMyu in large part because they know TeniPuri already and there's very little confusion as to what's going on (also: hot young men). *pnish* stuff is all original and no one knows what's going on unless I write up one of my ASS LONG REPORTS on it. And even then, no one can REALLY care about it until they SEE it. If stuff were subbed, people might express more interest at least in the group. I dunno.

This rant's gotten really long, and I'm going to bet most people won't make it all the way down here; I just needed some time to get this out of my system. It'll probably be ignored to some extent, in which case nothing will be solved and in another few months I'll probably make another one of these. Whatever. At least I feel somewhat better now.

---

If it wasn't entirely obvious from that sticky post at the top of my LJ, I live in Japan, I go to *pnish* and Nagayan-related shows, and I am quite a vocal shipper of...certain ships.

Should you spend any amount of time with me online, this will be quite obvious. However, I am more than aware that it's not everyone's cup of tea, and I am most definitely not about to "push it" on anyone not open to it.

You want to talk about TeniPuri? Excellent, let's rant and rave ♥

You want to talk about TeniMyu? Awesome, just know I luuuuuv me some first cast and am not afraid to show it :D

You want to talk about BuriMyu? Sweet, it's been one of the most fun shows I've seen this whole time--but be aware that I don't like Bleach XD Like, at all XDDDDD

You want to talk about *pnish*? Cool beans! I am always glad to point people in the right direction for blogs and tickets, and even more thrilled to talk about the guys and their shows, give you a rundown on what makes them tick, talk about their relationships with each other and who met whom where and when (that's not stalking, that's being well-informed! :P), I know *pnish*, as well as it's possible for someone from another country not friends with them to know them :D

You don't want to talk about shipping though? Great. We don't have to. We don't have to mention a word, we can talk about any of the above topics or anything else not RPS-related whatsoever.

I will absolutely not push my beliefs on anyone--whether it's shipping or proselytizing or anything; I believe more in a "teach by showing" methodology anyways. So just to get it out of the way: yes. I'm one of those fans. But I'm not going to sit you down and go, "omg look how they're staring at each other here" in the middle of an otherwise enjoyable conversation.

Now, if you WANT to be "preached" to, I'm of course more than happy to oblige in what I hope would be an acceptable fashion :D And if we go to a *pnish* event together, you may have to ignore my occasional snickering or lip-biting-to-avoid-making-a-scene (I KID. Mostly), but seriously, I'm a *pnish* and Nagayan fan first, a shipper second (CLOSE SECOND, but second), and I love all these guys for themselves and their craft far more than for any relationships they may have with one another.

Just wanted to make that clear.

Comments

Well you get a long comment.

[nacchi-camui.livejournal.com]

*pats*

I think the problem with the TxN fandom is that it became just that : a real, large enough fandom. Granted when I joined there was already a good hundred of members, but the few who posted were all on Yahoo, and we were all talking together in Lube Chat. It had some kind of little community feeling.

I don't know what got in the way but people suddenly stopped going on Yahoo. I don't log on that much anymore because I know there won't be any giant chat. It is kinda sad.
Maybe we should try to make it a regular thing and post about it in the comm, I don't know.

Then if you consider that some people are like me and are too shy to post in communities with a big number of members...there you go. :p

Real life does get in the way a whole lot. I guess you didn't stop translating Tuti's blog because you felt like it (or did you...lol)

For me TxN became such a part of my life that I don't get crazily excited on absolutely anything anymore, it's just here with me and makes me happy enough. Plus other people like you can fangirl for me. 8D

And we SHOULD sub stuff. People loved it when we subbed the Host Brothers; it'd definitely help the fandom in a way. Now of course it takes a lot of time.

As for crack pairings...I stopped liking crack altogether. It's an excuse for OOC characters and stupid settings. So I understand. :p

And uh...*pats again*

Re: Well you get a long comment.

[fencer-x.livejournal.com]

I miss our Lube Chats so much ;_; And I feel like I'd be just the same as everyone else (hell, I probably wouldn't really be in fandom at all anymore, or would have moved on) if I weren't here...

Everyone seems to be saying that they really want oh_tuti started up again, and I've been meaning to give it another go, sooooo...

[clawprint.livejournal.com]

Aw! I'm sorry I don't post more! *coughatallcough*

I think most of the members are either dead LJ accounts or just don't have anything to contribute, so they don't bother to post. I know that's why I'm so quiet.

I can't write, can't draw. I don't know enough Japanese to translate or sub. And I probably wont be in Japan for another 2 to 3 years, so I can't help stalk the guys. :<

Anyway, I'm really sorry the fandom's making you feel bad. And sorry I'm such a lurker.

[feyla.livejournal.com]

hello there! Haven't seen me in a while have you? I have to admit I felt like I needed to comment after reading this. Because I am one of those people who kind of fell away. I wasn't ever the most active person, but I used to always be in the comms and reading fic and whatever. And since I am still a member of most of them, I've seen how everything has died off.

As to why that is, I don't exactly know. I think a lot of it did build around Tenimyu, and those guys aren't in it anymore. Even not seeing them as characters but as real people, I liked seeing them all together. And they aren't that much anymore. I can still see *Pnish together, but I don't watch them all that much. I really like them, but I just don't keep up with them as much. Probably because the people, the community around them isn't that active, so it doesn't inspire me to be active.

What took me away mostly though is another group of guys. Sorry, but it's the truth. And they can be serious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzcXKBzolXM&fmt=18), they can be complete dorks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BStScp6DqVc&fmt=18), they can be sweet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8XtHA4Gl4Q), they are amazing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGkrN0p4u1w&fmt=18) singers, and I l (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S88POuj95co) o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ-94atKT3g&fmt=18) v (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snn6IIi6aLg&fmt=18) e (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJEwMNxuTiQ) watching them. I can't see them as characters because they never have been. The comm around them drives me nuts sometimes (there's way too many people who see a touch, a glance in the general direction of one and say they're in love) but at the same time I've got some great friends to fangirl with and I love it.

I can understand what you're saying, because watching these boys and keeping up with them, as well as others is great. And if it suddenly died off, I would be quite sad. I put some videos up there, and you don't have to know them for the vids to be funny or sweet, so check them out! They are active in both Korea and Japan, so if you ever feel like looking for some of their Japanese stuff they're great. I know you aren't looking to replace the ones you already have and love, I'm just offering something you might like to check out.

[feyla.livejournal.com]

a comment on subbing in response to nacchi_camui up there- it would be good to sub stuff. My Japanese is still basic, and so it's hard to get into their stuff when I can't understand half of it. With the group I mentioned up there, there's whole subbing teams and sometimes things only take a few hours to be subbed (short things or clips and at most shows only take a few weeks). It makes it much more accesible to everyone when we can all understand what they're saying

[fencer-x.livejournal.com]

Well, thanks for trying, buuuuuut.... XD;;;;

I never have been and never want to be involved in a boyband fandom in any way :/ DBSK and all those Korean bands are just another Johnny's to me, and I looooaaaaaathe Johnny's (both the empire and the fandom) >_< That plus the fact that it's another language just adds to my disinterest in getting involved (I think I've now reached the point where--if I can't understand what they're saying for myself, I can't really commit), and the fact that it's "stolen my fandom *whine whine* is definitely not endearing me to it *CRYMOAR* :P

I know tons of people love them, and I'm sure they're great guys and a fun fandom in general, but I am, like I said, already giving 120% of myself to the fandoms I'm in currently and have no desire to get into boyband stuff, just as I have no desire to get into any other TeniMyu cast (I'm only moderately interested in 5th cast because Tsujimoto--the new Oishi--has performed with *pnish* before).

Boybands are just...a definite turn-off for me >_> Everything about them feels fake and contrived, and I really can't think of anything that would convince me otherwise. Two members could post to their blog in matching tuxes with rings on their fingers saying they just got back from Canada and I would be 99.9% sure it was just to get more tickets sold. Once you reach a certain level of popularity, I lose pretty much all interest, and boybands of any country are so far above that level it's not even funny. I'll listen to their songs, maybe even buy a CD now and then, but that's the extent of my fandom involvement or really caring about the members >_<

Johnnys can be serious, can be dorks, can be sweet, and definitely have some amazing songs. But I don't think there's another empire that I loathe more than them XD;;;; I could rant on them for hours, but...that's another post >_>

[feyla.livejournal.com]

I was just trying to give you something to watch there, keep you occupied if nothing else. I'm not trying to convert you into liking them, just showing you some of their funnier, sweeter moments.

and hey, I could go into Johnnys too, especially how I think half of their fame is just because of the company but I won't. these guys aren't from there and I was just trying to share them with you. I've done the same thing with *Pnish* for some of the girls in that fandom, so what can I say I like to share what I like. however popular they are doesn't matter, and these guys might be one of the most popular groups in Asia right now, but they have earned it. call them a boyband, yeah that's what they are, but they can sing

[feyla.livejournal.com]

so for some reason I just got half your comment in my email (the second half) and I don't feel as offended now that I've seen the whole thing. because I do understand you. I just hate how they get equated with Johnnys, when they aren't. and I don't know, they can just really sing and I love that. I'll admit I have some of the Johhny's groups music on my ipod. And I'll listen to the ones that really get stuck in my head. But it's not the same. so I'm sorry for jumping on you or anything, I just wish I could get people to understand that. It's really frustrating to me. they sing in harmony and have amazing acapellas and they haven't made it in Japan through a company name, they really worked for what success they have now.

And it's fine if you don't care about watching that stuff, but there's at least one funny interview from Japan up there. It's from Heyx3 and those interviews are always funny.

[fencer-x.livejournal.com]

No no, I like boyband songs--they're generally fun, poppy, and everyone knows them. Hell, Nagayan sings N'sync XD

It's the fandoms and the empires that surround them I can't stand >_< Popularity plays a big part in turning me away from things, though, and it's just how I feel. If *pnish* were as big as, say, Takarazuka, I probably wouldn't be as into them. Hell, if *pnish* were as big as TeniMyu is right, anything with a large enough fan following turns me off, and especially boybands, no matter how good or cute they are, because they attract a really stereotypical group of people. And of course not everyone is bad--most people get into it for the music and dancing and cute guys, which...well, that's why I got into TeniMyu anyways :P Not like I can fault someone for doing that!

But yeah, definitely not my cup of tea ^^; Thanks for trying though! I appreciate you trying to get my spirits up :)

[amyused.livejournal.com]

I must confess that at first I definitely did have a bit of BNF-intimidation syndrome, but now I'm just having fun talking to you and hearing your opinions on fandom and things in person.

While reading this, I felt both guilty and kinda understanding of where you're coming from. When I first barely barely was starting to get interested in TutixNagayan, I found that comm to be the most amazingly interesting and active thing on my friendslist. The fics were interesting, the debates on new tidbits of info about the two of them were compelling, the information about their performances amazing... And since then, it's been rather inactive or just sometimes the occasional fic post with a few people commenting on them.

I feel guilty because, while I would like to contribute to this fandom, I find myself at a loss as to how I should go about it. Probably, other newer fans (and maybe old?) have the same problem of wishing to contribute but not being inspired or really knowing what people would like to see on their friendspages. I've written two short fics, but that's all I've been able to think of to throw out there. I can't draw, I can barely write, all I can do is watch these actors' shows and think they're amazing.

Maybe if we talk to each of the communities and let them know A) there's no need to be intimidated by the long-time contributers to fandom and B) anything they might want to throw out there (i.e. discussion topics, fanart, fic ideas, screenshots, etc...) would be appreciated by the other fans, people would post more often with more new things.

I fear that some people are like me and just think themselves too boring or uncreative to really be appreciated by people on the *pnish*, Morixdaiki, and Tutixnagayan comms, however untrue that may be.

Long comment, sorry about that. But basically, I wanted to make sure you know that your concerns aren't unheard. Fansubbing would add to the non-Japanese-speaking fanbase, which might help renew interest. I do think it's a good idea, but I know that it takes a lot of time and energy.

Hang in there and don't get too discouraged!

[fencer-x.livejournal.com]

I've tried to inspire so much, and sometimes it worked -- the first drabble challenge didn't get as many replies, but it got more replies from a wider range of people than the last one which was 90% ME _o_

The Fic-For-A-Pic contest also got a nice response, which made me happy, but now it's over, and the comm is dead again. There are worse things to complain about than, "Boohoo all the activity on my comm is fic every few days!" because we should be happy we even have that, but I just feel...so jealous that other comms get so much more activity and participation out of their membership, and annoyed that my work doesn't get any kind of RESPONSE from the fandom.

Efforts have been made to inspire, and while there may be some initial interest, nothing ever comes of it save from the same few people every time.

It's possible that an outright address needs to be made to the comm(s) to say what the problem is and ask for help in fixing it from the members. Encourage newbies not to feel intimidated, to contribute anything they can--even a reply to a fic is so much better than nothing!--without worrying about "OMG TALKING TO A BNF D8"

Fansubbing would probably solve the problem of people not being familiar with the guys...I've always wanted to talk to *pnish* about releasing their stuff in English at least :/ I mean, to have access to a script would just be...so so helpful.

[amyused.livejournal.com]

Aa, of course I don't mean to complain about the fact that most of the time the comm is getting fic posts! Naturally, that's amazingly fun and still a very good way to participate in any sort of fandom. Just that I did enjoy going back in time for that comm and reading all the discussion/picture posting and such.

Well, with all that I've been watching recently, I wouldn't be surprised if I do get inspired to write/draw more for any of those three comms. Maybe that really is all this comm needs: people to watch more of everyone's shows and get re-inspired by the guys themselves? If that is the boost people need, then translating things is probably the best way to go...

I also advocate a big comm address, though, to let people know that any sort of participation of any kind is appreciated by everyone.

... I do wonder what *pnish* would say if asked for a script of a play of theirs?

[love]

*laughs* I am presuming something prompted "I don't push"?

[fencer-x.livejournal.com]

Oh nah, nothing really prompted it XD It was more of a preemptive measure :D

I'm just generally concerned that people might think, "Oh god if I go to a show with this chick ALL she's gonna talk about is how so and so are doing the nasty backstage before curtain..."

[love]

*laughing*

The Great American Novel, as a comment

[jazzy-peaches.livejournal.com]

I actually just mentioned the whole newbie-fear thing to someone the other day, in the context of, 'I think I have a good idea but I don't have the backbone to go forward'. And that's weird for me, because I feel like I do have that leadership quality in real life, lol, so why should it be different here, especially when, as you said, its one of the friendliest communities I've ever seen. (Which is something I've always liked about it, seeing what goes on in other places.)

I think for a lot of people coming to any new community, no matter how welcoming, is like walking up to a group of people who are already laughing and talking and jumping into the conversation. Even with the nicest people, its still a little awkward. There's nothing wrong with that, and it fades, but that doesn't make it easy.

I don't think this is all of the 'problem', but it might be a chunk of it. And maybe the solution to that is to have a place where everyone introduces themselves or to have a massive organized group chat where we all watch something and talk about it. *shrugs* I'm not exactly sure.

To play devil's advocate for like 5 seconds: I know that sometimes I get slightly envious of how much you can dedicate to fandom, mainly because you are finished with school and you have started your 'normal human', as we like to say ;D, life. But I think for many people, for example myself, we're still trying to get that jump started. And sometimes that means that fandom (like other fun) has to take a backseat while stuff gets figured out. Again, to use an example from my own life, I was only able to participate in the fic-for-a-pic challenge after the deadline got extended because before that I wanted to write something but honestly didn't have the time.

I don't mean to accuse you of not being aware of this or of not understanding or something else that makes it seem like I think you're a terrible monster, lol, because its not true. I just wanted to throw that POV out there.

Again, I do realize that this isn't all of the problem, but one of a bunch of things that made the situation what it is.

I guess my point is that I think life (fanlife included) comes in waves, and maybe this is what will start things picking up again? Optimism, I have it in spades

♥

[dria-uesugi.livejournal.com]

...oh lordy, I don't even know where to start in replying to this...

Why? Cause you're right. I couldn't agree more with practically everything you've said >_> I've been feeling much the same way for a while and it's a real honest-to-god shame that 90% of the recent fics have come from the same three or four people and that's it. No meta. No icons - geez when was the last time we had an icon post? No screencaps. Next to no reports on the guys plays, which considering how many more people go to these things now compared to a couple of years ago is CRIMINAL!

So, I completely understand why you're feeling disheartened. Really. But at the same time, as I was just saying to Ris, we do need to give ourselves credit for what we have achieved. That despite certain people moving half way round the world and others of us graduating from uni and venturing out into the big wide world of work, and our own apartments and stuff, that some of us are still working together, collaborating, exchanging ideas and fangirling across continents and time zones. And more. Discussing these guys together, face to face, rather than via IM. Going to see them on stage rather than having to wait for DVDs. Creating anthologies and staking out GAIN and gaining access to so much more stuff that we never had three years ago.

We've come a long way, I think, the fandom and the community have changed radically from how they were two to three years ago...

And now that Ris and I have spent half an hour discussing this - I have to admit, that what would really help me (and Ris, honest, she's part of this too) is re-gaining that connection with the guys that we had when oh_Tuti was going *ducks* I know you had very legitimate, sensible reasons for stopping when you did, but not knowing what Tuti's rambling about this week does make a difference to how I perceive the guy (and lets be honest, it'd be a hell of a lot less stressful than translating some of the pnish plays!). Its just an idea, anyway ^^;

Er... and I've probably rambled enough >_<;

[kooriyoukai.livejournal.com]

I can see this sort of thing has been a long time coming, and I really don't blame you. But I think we need to ask ourselves what we want to fix, what can be fixed, and what may simply be inevitable.

For starters, I agree with your sentiments regarding treatment of BNFs in the fandom. As an "old school" member (not really a BNF anymore, hopefully) and someone who has lived through the same feelings, I can see where your frustration and unhappiness may originate from. I think that as fangirls we really desire nothing else but to speak on an equal level with our peers, to share ideas and thoughts and inspirations and sudden insights into these guys' personalities and personal lives. Being revered and deferred to without question though kind of defeats the creativity that usually arises from conflict or at least a steady exchange of ideas that may contradict or add to the discussion. I too miss the days of essays and discussions, but over time having people agree with you because of your name and not because you're necessarily right becomes a bit depressing. We have so many wonderful and intelligent people in the fandom, but the ratio of sheep to shepherds is much greater than I wish it was :(

As Cate mentioned in hers, I'm in agreement with her regarding the resurrection of oh_tuti to provide us with the day-to-day type updates on these guys' lives. Sure, they rarely if ever talk about each other, but for many of us authors and speculators I think that the appeal not only lies in those special moments and extraordinary occurrences, but also in discovering who these men are and what things drive them in their daily lives. For me, one of the biggest things I came to love about Tuti and Nagayan was that, even though they're both extremely busy actors with independent jobs and interests, as a couple they work. How did I know they worked? Because I came to know them better as individuals and saw the edges of the puzzle pieces with a clarity that inspired fics and discussions by the dozens. For Cate and I, our motivations lie most strongly in the psychology and the comprehension of these two men as individuals first, and then as a potential couple second. Of course there will always be certain events or backstage footage or interviews that spark off a story idea or a topic of discussion, but because this is real life those events happen few and far between. Why should we have to wait for something to happen at all? It's the connection that we miss most of all, the feeling of closeness and comprehension and empathy, and also the dots that become connected once those seemingly random, mundane, useless details reveal themselves to be part of a much bigger and amazing picture. So what we're really saying I suppose is to give oh_tuti a shot again and see what comes about :D

[nikki-aino.livejournal.com]

Right now I'm sitting at home with a cold, so excuse me if this gets a little incoherent XD

I don't know where to start on this, but let me give it a go.

Let's start with the thing that hit my nerve the most: the actor = character attitude. Jesus christ, it gets on my nerrrrves.
I mean, people are free to ship whatever they like, but I don't get it. A while ago I had a conversation with a friend on this and we came to the conclusion that some people confuse the concept of fanservice in interviews etc with reality.
There are things about MorixDaiki and TutixNagayan that's appealing to me personally and makes it different from "trend/fanservice pairings". Kind of like how you described it, it's not much about looking for hands on shoulders and superificial quotes (though that's a fun thing to do as well ;D). We get to see glimpes of a relationship between two people that is special. We got to see it evolve, and the brilliant thing is, their relationships are still evolving. It's a neverending fandom :D (until like you said either gets married or, god forbids, dies)
And what I think is the most important thing, I would love the guys just as much if I didn't ship 'em. No matter what kind of image as a fan I might portray, I don't love them for the much sought after Ghey™, but for who they are and what they do. That's the core of this fandom imho.

Now for something on the inactivity of our fandom.
Your timing is wonderful btw, because just the day before yesterday I decided all I did was taking and taking from fandom, without giving much. So I decided I would post more often and not be held back by, well, by whatever illogical reason that keeps me from posting all the things I want to. Getting out of the comfort zone of my own journal XDD
I think it could very well be the same for more members of the fandom. It might have to do with a general trend that seems to be showing in online fandom as a whole. What I've noticed is the that during last year(s) online fandoms in general have become tougher and created new rules and standards for their communities, which for some reason or another seemed to have turned into Internatiol Rules of the Internet You Do Not Question.
In bigger communities, which with the amount of members TxN has is as well, whenever someone posts something random or something not quite up to the "standards" set by the internet police (XD;;), they get called on it. "Didn't you mean to post this in your own journal?", how often have I not seen that in other communities while the post was still on topic...
It makes some people shy and sometimes intimidated to post, though there is no real reason to for this fandom as far as I'm concerned.
The only exception to this seem to be all the "lol" communties, so maybe we should just rename all communuties. "morixdaikilol" and "tutixnagayanlol" do have a ring to it ;DDDDD


But I haven't been around during the heydays of tutinaga, so I have no clue what it used to be like, but even in the 1,5 years have been around I've notice a declining activity D:
I can't help restoring it to how it was "in the olden days", but I'm going keep with the plan to post more often like I had decided for myself already :D
(The lack of MorixDaiki love reminds me...I still have fanart lying around that I never posted DDDDD: IM A BAAAD FAN)

Unrelated, but one thing I did find out from the Pic for a Fic challenge is that I. can't. write. I entered 3 fics, but yeah. I'll stick to fanart. XD (and sims lol)

That's not what I wanted to say at all, but the phone just rang and I completely lost my train of thought. D:

Also this question has been a long time coming, but what the flying fuck is Lube Chat and how does that happen?! XD I gather it's something you do on yahoo, but I don't know much about it (since msn is my default im service and all, I don't know much about how yahoo works aside from the obvious adding of other users and chatting XD;;;)

[k-hitachiin.livejournal.com]

I feel guilty now >.<
I never really contribute anything to the fandom and only taking and reading what's there.
moreover this year has been really hectic for me. so I haven't been on lj or ym much.

I remember last year I was really hyped up and wanted to draw a fan pic for TxN for their 3rd 'child'. the fandom was a great part of my life at that time.

but now, since the beginning of this year, there's just too much thing to do T-T. and school's internet doesn't let me connect to YM.

I miss my fandom!!! I miss chatting and rp-ing on YM with TxN fans from Indonesia. and I also miss the lube chat. I remember my first lube chat.. it was a lesson on writting echi XD that was so much fun!! and then we all watching together pnish treasure box (if I'm not wrong) and talk about it.

[crazydya.livejournal.com]

I kinda understand how you feel, I had different fandoms [not necesarily japanese] that I tried to keep alive, but somehow, yeah, they died. And I mean not only my personal ones, but also others'fandoms.
I'd love to write fanfic, yeah I'm shy and I really don't want for some people to see me in a weird way, even though I am a weird person. You wouldn't believe how many ideas I have per second for fics! But I rather keep them for myself... because, honestly, they are not brilliant ones, just some random thoughts, whenever I get inspired by something.
I live in a country that is not very content about fanfiction in general. I mean, at all [as far as I know]
TutixNaga is my favourite pair. I just like seeing them together whether is it pictures, shows etc. They make me happy. I mean like whenever I'm down, I take my cell phone out of my pocket and stare at the wallpaper. It's just Tuti and Nagayan smiling for the camera. It clears my head, makes me lighter for a second, reminds me what I fight for. 50% of the reasons I started being so into these japanese stuff are all random. The other 50% is all about these guys. [especially Nagayan

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I kinda understand how you feel, I had different fandoms [not necesarily japanese] that I tried to keep alive, but somehow, yeah, they died. And I mean not only my personal ones, but also others'fandoms.
I'd love to write fanfic, yeah I'm shy and I really don't want for some people to see me in a weird way, even though I am a weird person. You wouldn't believe how many ideas I have per second for fics! But I rather keep them for myself... because, honestly, they are not brilliant ones, just some random thoughts, whenever I get inspired by something.
I live in a country that is not very content about fanfiction in general. I mean, at all [as far as I know]
TutixNaga is my favourite pair. I just like seeing them together whether is it pictures, shows etc. They make me happy. I mean like whenever I'm down, I take my cell phone out of my pocket and stare at the wallpaper. It's just Tuti and Nagayan smiling for the camera. It clears my head, makes me lighter for a second, reminds me what I fight for. 50% of the reasons I started being so into these japanese stuff are all random. The other 50% is all about these guys. [especially Nagayan <_<]
*pnish would've been well known if it had subs. I'm serious, I know some people that like plays and like new ideas and are generally open minded, but they are not willing to learn japanese just for that reason. And my japanese is, for the moment, lame. In the next two years I might start doing some subs for certain shows, until then I don't even want to think about it because I dont't want to offer a bad translation.
uhh >.< I lost some ideas but anyways sorry for the eventual mistakes, I had a rough day and I can't focus properly.
and yes, among the reasons I read your LJ is because you live in Japan [and I want to go to Japan as soon as possibile and I'd love to know someone there, even if it's only on the internet], but there are also other reasons, that I'm not going to write here because it would be way too off-topic and useless.
that's it, [well, a part].

[crazydya.livejournal.com]

o.O for some weird reason it seems a part of my comment got copied/pasted ... *stares in shock*
my apologies. I have no clue wtf happened.
need a coffee o.O

[calm-isolation.livejournal.com]

*waves a little*

I guess I am one of the silent fans in the comm's.....I don't post because the be honest I posted one in the pnish comm a question about a blog picture that was posted and I got horrible horrible comments from people like I was stupid or something (no not you) and it really turned my stomach. I am REALLY into pnish and LOVE TxN and MxD (I didn't know you had a comm for them...joins and also rejoins pnish cause new journal forgot to rejoin ACK!)

But I think as a new fan who doesn't know as much as some of the more experienced and well informed fans such as yourself it is kinda intimidating to post because we don't want to look stupid....or at least I don't and the one time I did post I was made to feel stupid....

I will try to be more active though <3 Because I know how lonely it can be to be in a small fandom

[analineblue.livejournal.com]

I also feel like I don't know where to start with this. XD;; I have a ton of thoughts, some more personal, some more fandom-oriented, but for me, the most important thing, is that in general, I think what we have is a really, really great thing. I’ve met so many amazing people in this fandom, some who are still active, some who aren’t, and a lot that I’m just getting to know now. And of course it's a huge source of sadness for me sometimes, just thinking about "how it was" versus now, but... But there are also things that we have now that we didn't have then--namely, an amazing fandom representative actually in Japan who is able to give us reports on things that many people will never get to experience.

I also think (and I really really hope I'm right) that the interest and the inspiration for the fandom is there. I think that’s one thing that is always there, and that it’s just a matter of being able to tap into it. I think it's hard though, for a lot of the new people, because like you mentioned, they maybe haven't seen these guys on stage, and don't feel like they have as much of a personal connection.

And I do think that the language barrier is a problem, maybe the biggest one. And that’s a really hard thing to deal with, because of course you alone can't be expected to translate everything for us. Sometimes I feel like there just aren’t enough people with a strong command of the language who are able to share this stuff. I think that’s a lot of the problem with reports on plays, etc. People may go, and enjoy it, but maybe don’t feel qualified to report on things to the extent that we’d like to see?

And as far as the issue of people feeling comfortable posting things, and fangirling, etc… I guess for me, I tend to put my trust in the fact that that by welcoming people to the fandom whenever we can, by encouraging anyone and everyone to post, to introduce themselves, to join in... I think that if we continue to do all of those things, it will at some point come full circle. And I think having 800 members speaks to the fact that this is something that can happen. I hope so, anyway, because sometimes I feel like I’m not sure what more to do. Maybe this is just part of my personality though—I’m just not really sure how to engage people in situations like this. I really really wish I was better at it. :/

I think that your perspective on all of this is unique though, and I really understand where you’re coming from. You see these guys all the time, and so of course, I can see why it would be frustrating not to see the level of excitement that you feel watching them on stage (or off) reflected in the fandom, and then trying to translate that excitement and inspiration into a LJ post, not getting many responses, and feeling frustrated. I wish I had a solution for that, because I can 100% understand why that upsets you, and why it would make you feel discouraged. ;__;

Overall though, I think the important thing to remember is that we really do have a lot of wonderful, amazing people in this fandom, so many great sources of inspiration, and so many people who really, really care. I have to hope that all of these things combined will lead to something good...

[hamykia.livejournal.com]

ahh you make me cry, totally agree with the amazing fandom representative part!
I'm trying to learn how to use photoshop, how to draw and how to write fics at the moment, I wonder if it will take long....
I will work harder!!!! p(^_^)q

*had to comment*

[fullmetalkatu.livejournal.com]

I will admit, your knowledge of these guys is ABSOLUTELY INTIMIDATING. Also, the fact that you can defy the language barrier to learn more is a definite leg up on most of us in the fandoms. Information about these boys-- besides what you provide us with, you and a few others-- is so hard to come by without speaking the language, it's just frustrating, and I think that's why so many people drop out of the fandoms so quickly.

Personally, I'm attempting to learn Japanese from the boys-- mostly Nagayama and my single, lone Switch wo Osu Toki DVD and my little language books I flip through when I can actually catch what's going on.

Life's been attacking me as of late (LOL SENIOR IN HIGHSCHOOL LAND WHOO) and I'm somehow busier this year than I was last year. Oddly enough, this fandom got me through one of the tougher times in my life and I really want to get back into it.

Actually, I think I will go make a post over at tutixnagayan...

[angelalia.livejournal.com]

Lurker friend here.
I get all your points and I must confess that I'm one of those people who usually just are invisible. I feel sorry for it quite a lot of times, because all of my fandoms, give me so much and I somehow I'm not able to give anything back, except when I overcome shyness and actually comment on the posts. But the point of this comment is, um, just the comment itself to let you know that I'm really appreciating all your work.

[kaitou-marron.livejournal.com]

Nyaaaa, I feel like I should say something, although most of what I'm feeling has already been expressed.

*sigh* I guess I'm not surprised to see this post, b/c I've noticed changes in the community since I've joined. I think I agree with Nacchi when she pointed out that the community has grown quite large.

I do think that real life gets in the way (and probably has been the biggest change for me personally). But I digress, as this isn't really the point of this post.

I also think that the language barrier, as previously mentioned is a big problem as well. Consequently (even with the lovely play reviews you give), it is still somewhat easier to follow along with myus. That being said, I remember having a lot of fun reading oh_tuti and feeling like I could keep up with the guys on a daily sort of basis. That being said, expecting you to do all of the translating is not fair to you and puts an undue burden on you... *sigh*

I do think that this community does have great people in it. Honestly, when I joined, I was surprised at how open and welcoming it was (and how I'm sure it still is ... if we could get more posts). I'm going to be optimistic about the community, though. Once chats get going, I'm sure that enthusiasm will perk back up.

I'm sure I don't tell you this enough, but thank you for all of your hard work. Please don't get too disheartened ...

[kumakun4077.livejournal.com]

I didn't read all of that because I'm tired and not feeling to good but I've been trying to get more into this over here..really I have..I leave comments and whatnot. I'd do more for the pairings if I could but I can't translate and I don't have any of their stuff..but my fic contest will help won't it? other people are saying they are looking into them and might give them a try and I talk like a freak over on aarin about them..mostly because I'm more used to it having been there just over a year...as far as yahoo goes it never ever worked for me so I just left it be sadly:(
I do love what you guys do for us newer people even tho I only talk to 3 of you ,you've all always been awesome!
wow I don't make sense and I'm sorry but I gotta say this b4 I get worse and forget it *sigh*
I'm gonna do what I can to get more involved and like I said to a few people am working on something now but can't actually talk about it because I soooooooo do not want to jinx it..but yes I'll do what I can when I can!I want to help support them because they work so hard and I love watching them do their thing...actually together or not I love them and I hope they can keep doing this for a long time to come.
ah sorry for the ramble..as I said..I'm sick and having a hard time thinking in the right order.

[sakia-chan.livejournal.com]

Ah~~~ now I feel really bad. D: True, I've been following TutiXNagayan since...well, tenimyu started (and although, I still check their blogs, read what is on my flist and stuff) I just don't have the time to....get "into" the fandom. (getting updated about the fandom is one thing, but to actively participate in it...that. kinda. takes time.)

Many a times when I want to delve straight into fandom, I'm pulled back by social obligations (A'lvls. O'lvls. Maybe when I get into Uni...it'll be better). Not that I don't do so in between these two major exams (it is only 1 YEAR of rest *sighs*) But I do feel bad of all those show piled up in my hard disk with the label "I NEED TIME TO WATCH THESE DAMMIT" Sadly it is harder to keep up with this fandom with the lack of subs (it is a heaven sent when there is really, but then I'll manage without them, just it takes longer *sighs*)

*huggles* I'm really really appreciative over what you HAVE done for the fandom and I'm kinda T^T at what I can do, because as much as I wish, I have naught skills in ficcage and drawing (Although I'll strive to do something after the As which come in 1 months time.)

I. kinda. fall out of fandom, "fall into" fandom, very rapidly, depending on circumstances but never really willingly. (That said, your message really spurs me on to keep trying to get back into it even when faced with the whole ton of things to catch up with, and don't know where to start dilemma <-- me thinks this might be the reason why people kinda fall out of fandom after a while.)

Anyways. this is just me randomly babbling nonsense. T^T *scurries away*

[hibimaosuki.livejournal.com]

I just...don't get people who have crack OTPs. ESPECIALLY crack RPS OTPs.
:: *raises hand* One of those. ^^; Heck, if only because "OT4" sounds better than "foursome".

I don't have an OTP in my OT4. I have Seto and Takki to thank for that (because Seto dropped Takki and Takki is a whore). If I think about it, the only RPS OTP I really do have is TxN. Everyone else, I have pairings. Mostly crack, admittedly. But crack pairings, not crack OTPs. Of all my pairings, only TxN makes any RL sense to me.

I wouldn't say I've moved on from TxN, though. I'm forever grateful to them because it was them who made me interested in TeniMyu to begin with. I can't give them as much attention as I used to, though, what with all the stuff MMV's been pulling on us and my utter devotion to TeniMyu. But I've definitely disappeared. I no longer have any TxN magic of my own to make anything that I think is worth sharing with fandom and won't utterly embarrass me as a writer and fandomer. I love these guys too much to put out second-rate stuff of my own, so I don't. Believe me, I wish I still could be anywhere near as good aS I used to be. I miss writing for the TxN fandom, but I just CAN'T anymore.

[warmsheet.livejournal.com]

But for these two pairings it is a completely different matter: it's not RPS. Not to me. It's just looking at these men who are very, very close over a long period of time, noticing their quirks and habits that you're only privy to because they're not super famous, and realizing that there's a pattern to this, a familiar one, that says they care about each other--or are infatuated, or have big heaping mancrushes--and that, to me, is all it is. My view of where I stand in this fandom is based entirely on: I am simply observing a real life relationship between two guys. Who happen to be smalltime actors in a city with a population of nearly 13,000,000 people (and come on, they're theatre guys--when you think about it, it's not like it'd be unprecedented).

*completely agrees*

I don't know what an RPS is, though.

I have to say I'm a tutixnagayan's lurker ^^' and would just randomly appear as a commenter in some posts (usually saying "THANK YOU!!!!"). I'm not really the type who posts and chats. I'm even the only tuti and nagayan fan in my circle.

As of now, I think I only have two OTP's.... *counts* Tuti/Naga and SenRu. Haha!! *bows*

Thank you for such a nice entry.

[hamykia.livejournal.com]

Sorry for taking my time to comment,I left my laptop in suspension for days just to answer this cause it is not working properly...
The thing is I had to comment cause I feel responsible too. See, I have never written fics or made fanart, cause I don't feel I'm good enough for that. However, I think if maybe I face writing (I don't feel I can draw at all) some fic, even though is crappy and so, maybe people like me would think "hey, I can do it too, if she does!" and get more people to do sth else than just squeeing about what people write, like I've been doing...
Also language is kind of a problem, I think... you see, I know some spanish-speakers who would not write anything in english cause it's... scary xDD we think we can't explain feelings and our lack of vocabulary... for me, at least, that's a problem, and makes me think twice every time I want to write something...
Oh, and about translations, I think it would be a wonderful idea translating some *pnish*? For example, my male friends do not like musicals, but do like pnish, however they would not watch it alone for the sake of it, cause they do not understand a thing, I have to be in front of them like "yeah, that's a watermelon..." So I know subbing everything would be tedious, but maybe with some notes about what they are doing and why, or some subbing when so says sth fun, would be much appreciated by those kind of people...
dunno, what do you think?...